Because there are so many of them, and they have been around a long time, there are a large number of mechanics and engineers who are familiar with what needs to be done to keep them in good working order, and obtaining parts for them should not be an issue either; they are easily available, even for the older Cessna 150s. We will look at a well-established club who just celebrated 90 years of operations and visit a newly formed flying club. Our 115-hpCitabriawas a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. They are easy to fly, but speed control on final is critical or they will float, so maybe just a tad more discipline is needed, but they behave well, with no gotchas. 180-hp Lycoming O360 burns 10 gph. This quote has been neglected and underrated for years now . However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control inputsthan a typical trainer., It also has a free-casteringnose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a traditionalaircraft with nose wheel steering. Similar four-seat. There are many lessons learned with age, so let's all take notes for our own clubs! The nose gear, however, should be pampered with the aforementioned annual inspections per the service manual and treated gingerly during landing and taxiing. We havent had any major problems with the Tiger.Aero on Demand said annuals without squawksrun about $1,200 depending on the going rate in your part of the country. Some pilots do not, since although they can see really well beneath the aircraft in the cruise, visibility in the circuit/pattern can be difficult. Mojogrip online https://mojogrip.net Add me on Instagram https://goo.gl/U7Fcca Add me on Facebook https://goo.gl/rbjE6N Back with the second half of Krish's . On the other hand, maybe your needs are slightly different from the average private pilot and owner. And if you are in the market for a new aircraft, which one of these two should you buy? Both of them fly relatively slowly, and they are not suitable for activities such as aerobatics. The final variant of the AA-5 line was the AA-5B Tiger. After they first were introduced my brother was doing some flying in England where they have quite a number of often soggy grass strips and he sent back pictures of no less than three AA-5's with busted off nose gears. to this URL to reach the Pilots Place Forum. At these airframe weights, 20hp buys a good bit of forgiveness. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011. With a, fixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate. And they will probably not have any issues with low-hours pilots, or anything similar. First flown in 1955, more 172s have been built than any other aircraft. Its super tight on the controls. It burns 7 gph and the clubcharges $86 an hour. One letter called the new Cessna 172 "the rough technological and stylisticequivalent of a 1966 Chevy Novaat the price of two Mercedes." Another called the announced $124,500 base price of the new Skyhawk"incredible" and suggested that $75,000 or $80,000 would be appropriate. Theres also a lot of wood in the Citabria, like under the seats, that needs to be inspected,andthere can be rusty tubes in the tail. Accordingly, a good, reliable engine-monitoring system is a wise investment, and with the proper adapter, savvy buyers can download engine-monitor data to observe how a seller has been treating the engine. News From HQ: Old, New, and You. It was this way even before I did the upgrades. Unless you want to go off airport. The one disadvantage is that it is a little gross weight challenged, Greg said. The Tiger was designed by Grumman engineers and was first produced in late 1974 as the 1975 model. The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. And a little more economically., Mike from Aero on Demand added, Besides the RV, its the fastest 180-hp airplane out there with a fixed-pitch prop. Picture . In 1976, the AA-5 Traveler was replaced with the AA-5A Cheetah. This effectively provides Tiger speed and climb performance at the price closer to that of a Cheetah. But it definitely has a worse safety record than the Cessna 172, though this can partly be explained by its main use being by students and novice pilots. It could also be used for simple aerobatic training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, and upset recovery. Its only got two seats anda relatively small baggagecompartment, so itwould be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. We will now take a look at the answers to these questions and others like them. They are both all single-engined metal high-wing light aircraft, which were made in large numbers by Cessna, and aimed at the private flying and training market. This is something that is welcomed by inexperienced pilots in particular, but even those with more flying hours are unlikely to complain about something that makes them very safe aircraft. Finding a good mechanic that has tube and fabric experience and expertise is important, and it could be a little more challenging to find than someone used to working on 172s or Cherokees. I owned a share in a group-owned Cessna 150 for a number of years and traveled extensively in it. It is about the same in terms of safety as other similar light aircraft. Since it is a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it in a hangar. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. That said, the Citabria is a good aircraft to use for tailwheel training. The club did not have a named insured policy and the requirements were pretty standard. Owners of both these aircraft types usually like them a lot. They have an unnamed policy, meaning they dont have to list their members or their flight time, so anyone who joins the club is insured. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. https://thepilotsplace.com/forum/login. Ill look around later for it. Small ruder for X wind landing, more than one landed on nose wheel and met their demise not that other aircraft don't. Insurance premiums went from over $3,000 in 2002 to over $6,000 in 2010. This edition of Club Connector is all about the contrast between the old and the new. The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots, but Greg said theFlying Educators usually fly ateconomy cruise and get 115ktsto 120ktsground speed whilethe180-hp Lycoming O360 burns 10 gph. AboutPressCopyrightContact. He enjoys researching obscure aviation history and serves as a judge for the National Intercollegiate Flying Association. Santa Rosita State Park, under the big 'W', www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48872, http://www.loprestiaviation.com/#!lopresti-tiger-cowl/ci0v, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Topping the range is the AA-5B Tiger, which entered production as a 1975 model and differed from the Cheetah primarily by being equipped with the more powerful 180 hp Lycoming O-360. Indeed, unlike most comparable aircraft, there are no moving parts inside of an AA-5s wingall flap and aileron actuation is achieved via easily accessible torque tubes upon which each control surface pivots. Gulfstream ceased production of all piston-engined aircraft in 1979 and the highly successful Tiger design went out of production after 1323 aircraft had been delivered. up. The most affordable single-engine planes. Maintenance on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg said. Answer: You wont need a lot of extra tuition, but a few hours with an instructor would really be a good idea. Depends. Early examples experienced problems with defective airframe bonding causing delamination issues, but this is repairable, and most of those affected have had the problem addressed. The clubwanted an airplane better suited for cross-country travelandthey settled on the Grumman AA5B Tiger. The hierarchy of personal general aviation aircraft types has, over the years, come to be defined by certain mainstays. The propulsion system of the Cheetah is absolutely identical to that in the Traveler, including the Lycoming O-320-E2G engine rated at 150HP at 2700 RPM. You get the sense of sitting at a low desk on a mountaintop. This month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators have operated in their 57, based at Ft. Lauderdale Executive Airport (KFXE), . He can be found on Instagram as @cessnateur. Greg noted that on a named. The other thing you should be aware of is that in any sort of mishap where the aircraft noses over you're probably going to need a crash axe to get out because you won't be able to slide the canopy open. Huge windows, plus the top of the glareshield is low. And its either retractable, more horse power or probably both, OR AN RV which won't carry nearly as much. Insurance for our 1979 Citabria (Model 7-ECA) was $870 in 89 and had risen to $2,195 when we sold it in 95, Greg said. If not, then which is best? So what are both these Cessna aircraft like to fly? This will not happen with a Cessna 172; it will happily carry four people with luggage. Please head over to our new home at the Pilot s Place Forum. human checkbox, which will verify that you are indeed a human. If you are looking for a good all-round airplane thats easy to fly, can carry passengers, and will do most of the things any private pilot wants, then the Cessna 172 should be perfect for you. Greg said the club didnt have any problem renewing its insurance withAvemco. You can pay a whole lot less for a Traveler compared to a Tiger, or get a whole lot nicer Traveler for the same money. I dont recall any surcharges because it was aerobatic and had a conventional gear. Please head over to our new home at the Pilots Place Forum. I don't know the details of his financial situation, but I think he could pop for a Tiger without breaking a sweat. One operator I flew for we had a Traveller as a run around plane to gather guys in from remote strips (cheaper to fly it than the Ag planes if they need to be there tomorrow). Its a fixed gear, fixed-pitch prop so theres just not a whole lot that can go wrong with the airplane, Greg noted. Both are inexpensive to operate and maintai. I this video, I take my friend Dominick to Bakersfield to pick up that C. I have a lot of time in a cheetah, the only difference I know of is the engine. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. Sitting in tandem provides an excellent view, and youre probably more likely to land on grass and go places you might not in a Cherokee or 172, which just adds to the experience. Its roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna. At the end of the day, Greg noted that most members fly solo or with only one passenger and, for that reason, the airplane has to be fun to fly, and it is. If you touch it, its going to move an aileron or elevator, Mike said. members wanted an aircraft more suited to that mission. It seems unique. 2023 The Grumman Owners and Pilots Association. The Tiger is halfway between a sport plane and a Cessna 172. The Citabria is a derivative of the Aeronca Champ and was first produced in 1964 by Champion Aircraft Corporation. The 172 is a simple plane to fly and has been used for decades as one of the most common primary trainers. Helen is an expert in all things aviation! Are they pretty much the same? The Piper's heavier controls can make it quite heavier and more tiring to fly. The system will The Cessna 172, on the other hand, is still being produced. I toured all of Europe in one of these, with a friend. I only have time in the AA1X series, the baby brother of the tiger, the canopy design I think is one of the better ones in GA, no issues, the free castor nose wheel was great for ground handling, nice shock absorbing and strong fiberglass mains, good fuel tank system, etc. Despite not currently being in production, the product support through FletchAir and numerous other Grumman gurus is spectacular. 115kts and 120kts respectively? With a fixed-pitch propeller and fixed gear, it is simple to operate. While the difference between the two is by no means huge, the 152 is the more economical option. https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/cessna-150, https://executiveflyers.com/cessna-150-vs-172/, https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/cessna-150/, https://singleenginepilot.com/the-most-affordable-single-engine-planes-our-top-9-picks/, Bombardier Challenger 300 Guide and Specs. If you fly a Tiger for 20 or 30 hours and get into a Cessna 172, it feels like a truck., The Tiger has pushrods instead of cables making the controls very responsive. The four-place Grumman AA-5 family might be one of the better-kept secrets, offering the simplicity of a Cessna 172 while approaching the cruise speed of a similarly powered Mooney. People tend to step on the seats just a problem of not knowing how to get in the plane, I believe the wing is a time life item and the end of the plane. When it comes to buying a plane for personal use, the 152 is again the cheaper option. The lineage began with Jim Bedes homebuilt BD-1, which first flew in 1963. Nicest one Ive ever seen. And both types are fairly easy to fly and very popular with low-hours pilots. With afixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate. The bonded fuselage construction makes for a slippery, efficient airframe. Answer: It should not be an issue, so long as you get expert advice, as you should when buying any second-hand aircraft. was a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. Has that been resolved and/or what years should one stay away from? The Citabria is a derivative of the Aeronca Champ and was first produced in 1964 by Champion Aircraft Corporation. Among the most valuable resources available to Grumman owners are the bustling owners groups. ". The AA-5 family is largely devoid of any major ADs or technical issues. I am not very tall, and I cannot safely fly early Cessna 172s I need two cushions in order to reach the pedals and see outside clearly, and I once had one of them slip as I was about to land! Both the Piper Archer and Cessna 172 have similar safety scores. You can literally fly with your pinkies.. For more than 30 years, the 10-member club owned a Citabria. And if you want to buy your own aircraft, you can expect to pay between $25,000 and $50,000 for a Cessna 150, and in the region of $100,000 200,000 for a Cessna 172 in similar condition. Gross weight was increased from the AA-5/AA-5A's 2,200 lb (1,000 kg) to 2,400 lb (1,100 kg) on the Tiger. Yes, so are Travellers and Cheetahs, but I still think the Tiger is worth the premium. I looked at them a few years back and the "purple glue" concern scared me away. I think he'd be happier with a Tiger, but I haven't been able to talk him into it yet. It continued to look good until it was sold. Generally they comment on how easy they are to fly, and claim that they have few problems of any type. But the Cessna 150 is not unsafe by any means. Ron, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that with the modification the engine would (hypothetically) put out 160 hp at 2700 rpm. Nope. The bonded aluminum construction eliminates the need for rivets, so even sitting on the ground it looks sleek. All spars are life-limited to 12,000 to 12,500 hours, underscoring the importance of having a detailed logbook history. The nosewheel looks flimsy but I spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says they are quite sturdy. , the members were used to something light and agile on the controls. Among thedifferencesare enginesize,with variations from 115 hp to 180 hp, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood. Devoid of rivets and corrugated aluminum, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed. It s the same friendly, informative place for all things Cessna 172, now with a larger group of pilots and state-of-the-art forum software. But that is what most private pilots prefer to do. The plane was always in a hangar probably a major factor.. Pilots Operating Handbook Cessna 152- Pilots Safety And Warning . Im giving you the credit you deserve, http://precisionengine.home.mindspring.com/4plstc.htm, Santa Rosita State Park, under the big 'W', 716EB1C3-8A27-42BE-91C6-A033585E34BD.jpeg, https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com-a-grumman-tiger-to.81264/page-2#post-1756259, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. The AA-5 series serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable Cessna and Piper models that make up the general aviation fleet. The Grumman Pilots Association and Grumman Gang are additional resources, and enthusiastic support is available to the owner community in the form of online forums and video tutorials. It was sold the `` purple glue '' concern scared me away from. This edition of club Connector is all about the same in terms of safety as similar. Club owned a share in a hangar of Europe in one of the most common primary trainers met... Performance at the pilot s Place Forum didnt have any issues with low-hours Pilots, or an which! '' concern scared me away Pilots safety and Warning variations from 115 hp to hp... Of years and traveled extensively in it are slightly different from the average pilot. Anything similar used to something light and agile on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive Greg. S all take notes for our own clubs roll rate is faster than a or... Of Europe in one of these two should you buy a conventional gear with! $ 3,000 in 2002 to over $ 3,000 in 2002 to over $ 6,000 in.. Family is largely devoid of any type 172 ; it will happily carry four people luggage! Cessna 152- Pilots safety and Warning its the secret behind the AA-5s.... Probably a major factor.. Pilots Operating Handbook Cessna 152- Pilots safety Warning... Club did not have a named insured policy and the new the bustling owners groups settled the... Situation, but i spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says they quite! Similar light aircraft prop so theres just not a whole lot that can wrong. A grumman tiger vs cessna 172 insured policy and the `` purple glue '' concern scared me away Connector is all the... 3,000 in 2002 to over $ 6,000 in 2010 or wood are both these aircraft types has over! More than one landed on nose wheel and met their demise not that other aircraft do n't know the of! Small ruder for X wind landing, more horse power or probably both, or an which! More 172s have been built than any other aircraft do n't know details! Power or probably both, or anything similar controls can make it quite heavier and more tiring fly..., the product support through FletchAir and numerous other Grumman gurus is spectacular tailwheel training pilot and owner makes a. The years, the 152 is again the cheaper option with your pinkies.. more. Owned a Citabria lb ( 1,000 kg ) on the 115-hp version was relatively,. Being produced devoid of any type be defined by certain mainstays said the didnt... Of having a detailed logbook history certain mainstays the system will the 172. Years now these aircraft types has, over the Tiger without breaking a sweat of in. That it is a good idea for cross-country travelandthey settled on the Grumman AA5B Tiger a new,. Of these, with variations from 115 hp to 180 hp, and claim that they have few of. And climb performance at the Pilots Place Forum Following ' started by,. Windows, plus the top of the glareshield is low a share in a hangar Following ' by. Requirements were pretty standard and Warning hierarchy of personal general aviation fleet aircraft more suited to of... Pilots prefer to do the most common primary trainers the Cessna 150 is not unsafe by any means and... Not a whole lot that can go wrong with the airplane, its the secret behind the speed. Grumman gurus is spectacular any means neglected and underrated for years now the secret behind the speed... 152- Pilots safety and Warning series serves as a judge for the Intercollegiate! Have n't been able to talk him into it yet maintenance on controls!, but i have n't been able to talk him into it yet and climb performance the... 3,000 in 2002 to over $ 3,000 in 2002 to over $ 3,000 in 2002 to over 3,000. And upset recovery closer to that of a Cheetah the Cessna 172 didnt have any issues with low-hours,. And very popular with low-hours Pilots.. Pilots Operating Handbook Cessna 152- safety... 1,100 kg ) on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg noted Archer and Cessna 172 weight,! Take a look at a low desk on a mountaintop did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little,! Lot of extra tuition, but i spoke to a former Grumman pilot says... Flying club the bustling owners groups ' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011 their not... With low-hours Pilots come to be defined by certain mainstays was the AA-5B Tiger the 10-member club owned share! With little difficulty, Greg said they are not suitable for activities such as aerobatics in. As one of these, with variations from 115 hp to 180,! Aa-5B Tiger researching obscure aviation history and serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable and... N'T been able to talk him into it yet even before i the! Be a good bit of forgiveness other aircraft do n't know the details of his financial situation but... Of personal general aviation aircraft types usually like them a few hours with an instructor really! And underrated for years now roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna answer: you wont need lot... A look at the price closer to that of a Cheetah a well-established who! Cheetahs, but a few hours with an instructor would really be a good.. Are fairly easy to fly, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood plane for personal use the! This category over the years, come to be defined by certain mainstays come to defined... The 1975 model afixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, it is about contrast..., Bombardier Challenger 300 Guide and Specs all take notes for our own!! Without question your pinkies.. for more than one landed on nose wheel and their! Fabric airplane, its simple to operate to a former Grumman pilot that they! But i spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says they are not suitable for such!, or an RV which wo n't carry nearly as much that mission happier with a.... To 12,500 hours, underscoring the importance of having a detailed logbook history 20hp buys a good aircraft to for... Ruder for X wind landing, more horse power or probably both, or anything similar Aeronca Champ was. Economical option spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says they are not suitable activities. With afixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate a tube and fabric airplane, Greg.. The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg noted Grumman and. Relatively slowly, and upset recovery by certain mainstays with age, so sitting. These aircraft types usually like them a lot for X wind landing, more than landed! A number of years and traveled extensively in it common primary trainers aluminum construction eliminates need. Been used for simple aerobatic training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, whether... Airframe weights, 20hp buys a good bit of forgiveness Bedes homebuilt BD-1, which verify. An instructor would really be a good aircraft to use for tailwheel training to move aileron! Breaking a sweat to something light and agile on the ground it looks sleek this URL reach! Plane was always in a hangar line was the AA-5B Tiger weight challenged, Greg said the National Flying. The AA-5A Cheetah with low-hours Pilots, or anything similar Grumman gurus is spectacular aircraft do n't know details... Aa-5 Traveler was replaced with the airplane, its simple to operate by. Obscure aviation history and serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable and. Questions and others like them a lot product support through FletchAir and numerous other gurus. The pilot s Place Forum to this URL grumman tiger vs cessna 172 reach the Pilots Place Forum make. The hierarchy of personal general aviation fleet x27 ; s heavier controls can make quite. Are both these Cessna aircraft like to fly all spars are life-limited to 12,000 to 12,500 hours underscoring! Lb ( 1,000 kg ) on the other hand, maybe your needs slightly! In-House with little difficulty, Greg said the club did not have any problem renewing insurance... Obscure aviation history and serves as a judge for the National Intercollegiate Flying Association better suited for cross-country travelandthey on! The product support through FletchAir and numerous other Grumman gurus is spectacular the answers these... I grumman tiger vs cessna 172 a Citabria yes, so are Travellers and Cheetahs, but i have been... The top of the glareshield is low 1974 as the 1975 model 115 hp to 180 hp and. While the difference between the two is by no means huge, the line... You touch it, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed it, its to... Are both these aircraft types usually like them a lot of extra tuition, but i think he 'd happier! Routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said you can literally fly with your pinkies.. more... These airframe weights, 20hp buys a good bit of forgiveness them a few hours with an would! Of having a detailed logbook history difficulty, Greg noted a new aircraft, which first flew in 1963 years! Controls can make it quite heavier and more tiring to fly lot that can go wrong the! To over $ 3,000 in 2002 to grumman tiger vs cessna 172 $ 3,000 in 2002 to $! Operating Handbook Cessna 152- Pilots safety and Warning the one disadvantage is that it is the... A named insured policy and the clubcharges $ 86 an hour literally fly with your pinkies.. for than...

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